1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,400
Well, hello again. Welcome back into the Allendary Show. We may not have much music in the next

2
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,760
hour, but I think we'll have some very interesting conversation. Our guest this morning, as we

3
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:16,760
have stated earlier, is Raymond E. Fowler, who is Chairman of the NYCAP Massages Subcommittee.

4
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,240
Good morning, Ray. Good morning, Alan. It's a pleasure to be with you this morning and

5
00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:26,120
to be with your radio guest for an hour. I think we can have a lot of fun in the next

6
00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,600
hour, and I know I'll get a lot of questions answered that I want to know about. First of

7
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:35,400
all, what is NYCAP so people will know? NYCAP is the abbreviation for the National Investigations

8
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:41,560
Committee on Aerial Phenomenon in Washington, D.C. It is a civilian group made up of thousands

9
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:47,920
of people who are interested in UFOs. On our board of governors, we have outstanding scientists,

10
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:54,200
and on our panel of special advisors, we have men from all walks of life, many experts in

11
00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,600
their own technical field, all of whom are convinced that there is something to UFOs,

12
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:05,400
that UFOs could be interplanetary. How about yourself, Ray? After studying the subject for

13
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:10,440
19 years, I've come to the conclusion that there is good observational evidence that

14
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:16,160
UFOs are interplanetary, that is a certain percentage of the UFO reports coming in not

15
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:22,360
only in this country, but from other countries. Let me ask you, has Russia, for example, ever

16
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:28,720
seen UFOs that cause their scientists to get pretty concerned? UFOs have not left Russia

17
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:35,520
alone by any means. In fact, there was a UFO flap back there in the earliest early 60s,

18
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,600
and on May Day, they had an outstanding scientist get up and tell the Russian people that UFOs

19
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,800
were a bunch of nonsense and capitalists had propped a gander, and what they were seeing

20
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:51,160
was just this. The Russian government and the other governments throughout the world

21
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:57,800
have the same attitude toward UFOs. Each government is carrying on an intensive secret investigation,

22
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:04,440
and their present attitude is that the public is not ready to know what UFOs truly are, and

23
00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:10,200
therefore carrying on an intensive secret investigation on one side and explaining UFOs away on the

24
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,000
other side. Let me stop you, Ray, for just a minute. You say that the government feels that

25
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:21,120
the people aren't ready to know? That's right. What do you mean by that? Back in 1961, Brookings

26
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:30,640
Institute was commissioned by NASA to investigate the consequences, the impact, if you will,

27
00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:36,520
upon society as we know it, people were known that there was superintelligent life visiting us.

28
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:42,400
Brookings Institute made a thorough study. I have a copy of the report home. It didn't bring

29
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:48,640
it with me this morning, and their overall conclusion was that there could be a stock

30
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:58,320
market crash, that people's religious life could be affected, orthodox science could not accept

31
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:04,280
this revelation. Maybe you'd like me to quote from this document. Yes, I wish I would. The

32
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:09,760
fundamentalists and anti-science sects are growing a pace around the world. For them, the discovery

33
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:15,760
of other life would be electrifying, and this is a very interesting statement right here. If

34
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:22,240
superintelligence is discovered, the results become quite unpredictable. It has been speculated

35
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:28,560
that of all groups, scientists and engineers might be the most devastated by the discovery of

36
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,960
relatively superior creatures, since these professions are most clearly associated with a

37
00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:38,560
mastery of nature, rather than with the understanding and expression of man. One can speculate too

38
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,200
that the idea of intellectually, intellectually superior creatures may be anxiety-provoking,

39
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:48,640
and it goes on and on, covering the various aspects of life as we know it, and how we would

40
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:55,200
be affected. It's a very pessimistic picture. O'Reilly, you yourself, of course, perform many

41
00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:00,640
investigations of so-called sightings, haven't you? Yes, I've performed quite a few investigations,

42
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,760
especially during the last few years. Well, recently, I don't know the exact date. It was last

43
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:12,160
month, I think around the ninth, if I'm not mistaken, there was a sighting of some sort in New Hampshire.

44
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,880
Are you aware of this? Yes, I personally investigated this sighting. It's one of the best

45
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:22,080
we have in our local NICAP subcommittee files. Can you tell us a bit? I'd like to tell you about it.

46
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:28,400
The report, the sighting rather, took place on September 3rd of this year, last month,

47
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:34,320
in the Exeter, New Hampshire area. Officer Bertram of the Exeter Police Department was patrolling

48
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:41,520
the roads around Exeter, around 12, 12.30 in the morning, early in the morning. He came across a

49
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:47,040
woman all alone parking the car. And he was very interested to see what she was doing there. So

50
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,520
he pulled up to the car and said, what are you, what was wrong with you? And she could highly

51
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:56,960
talk. She was so frightened, she said that she had been chased by this egg-shaped object, surrounded

52
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:03,760
with a red glow and with pulsating red lights. Well, he thought the woman was either drunk or

53
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:09,760
something was wrong. And he talked to her and tried to comfort her. And he didn't even bother to take

54
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,720
the woman's name and address. He just shrugged his shoulders, he said, and drove off and left her there.

55
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,160
But a half hour later, he said, as he's patrolling along the roads, he gets an emergency call from

56
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,840
the police headquarters at Exeter to report immediately that a boy, Norman Muscarello,

57
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:35,040
hitchhiking between Amesbury and Exeter, was chased along Route 150 by the same object.

58
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,200
He was almost in a state of shock by the time he got to the police headquarters.

59
00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,920
He was told to report immediately to pick this boy up and go back and make an investigation.

60
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,840
And he was pretty mad at himself and not getting the woman's name and address at that time.

61
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:54,880
To make a long story short, he brought the boy back to the field, still not really believing

62
00:05:54,880 --> 00:06:00,480
the boy's story, but interested enough to make an investigation. Oh, he's a reputable police officer.

63
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,400
The reputable police officers, right. We have checked their background. In fact, the Saturday

64
00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,320
review has checked their background thoroughly before. I don't know if you're aware of it,

65
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:15,440
but they carried a story on our investigation. But back to the sighting. Let's start with

66
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,720
Norman Muscarello. He was hitchhiking between Amesbury, Massachusetts and Exeter, New Hampshire.

67
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,760
And he was going along this farm road and all of a sudden, to his right, the whole field

68
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:32,560
lit up a bright red glow. He said it was just as almost as bright as dawn or daylight. And he looked

69
00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:40,400
and this object about 85, 90, 85, 90 feet in diameter was coming across the field directly

70
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:46,880
at him. It was carrying five bright red pulsating lights, which flashed in sequence. One, two,

71
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,800
three, four, five, four, three, two, one over and over again. And as it moved across the field,

72
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:57,040
it was tilting. He took one look and got up against the stone wall and terrified. The object

73
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:03,040
continued across the field and stopped and hovered over a house, a bear 30 feet from the boy.

74
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,000
It stayed there for a long five minutes and then it moved back over the field.

75
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,840
Norman got up and stopped pounding on the door. He was about 1.30 in the morning and

76
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:19,200
he woke Mr. and Mrs. Carl Russell up and they came to the window and looked out and he shouted,

77
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,600
I'm in chase by a flying saucer, let me in. And they thought he was drunk or something. They would

78
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:29,200
let him in at all and told him to get lost. So poor Norman took off down the road toward Exeter.

79
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,360
He was picked up by a car and was brought to the police station and that's where Officer Bertram

80
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:38,880
comes into the act. Officer Bertram returned to the field. They walked across the field together,

81
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,040
flashing their light, his lighter, the officer flashing his flashlight around looking for the

82
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:48,480
object. And Bertram said that he was just about to give up when the boy yell, look out, here it

83
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,920
comes. And sure enough, he said at treetop level coming right at them was this big object carrying

84
00:07:53,920 --> 00:08:00,960
five bright red pulsating lights. Bertram said that the boy just stood petrified and he himself

85
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:06,240
drew his revolver before he knew what he was doing. And the object stopped momentarily and then tilted

86
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:11,600
and started right at them. Bertram said it came so close that all he could see was red and he had

87
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,680
the feeling that he was going to get burned although he didn't feel any heat. He yelled for the boy

88
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,160
to take cover and the boy couldn't move so he grabbed the boy and practically dragged him across

89
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:26,240
the field to the cruiser. Meanwhile the object stayed out over the field, a mere 500 feet away

90
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:31,680
from the cruiser, tilting back and forth. No noise at all. A call was made to Exeter police

91
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:37,040
headquarters to send another cruiser and Officer Hunt arrived on the scene shortly after. Both the

92
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:42,000
officers and the boy watched this object for 10 minutes before it moved off. And did it move

93
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,040
off right at tremendous speeds as most reports indicate? No it didn't. It moved off very slowly

94
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:52,880
tilting as it went. No sound whatsoever. It's very interesting to note however that the horses and

95
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:59,200
the adjoining barn were making a terrible noise kicking their stalls and the dog across the street

96
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:04,000
was holling. The Air Force was very interested in this when they made their investigation the next

97
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,200
day and an interesting question asked the residents in that area. They asked some of their

98
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:15,120
chickens woke up, that chickens were affected. Is that so? And this is because a chicken has a

99
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:20,720
different hearing range than a horse or a dog or a man. In other words there might have been a sound

100
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,840
of this thing which the human ear couldn't have heard but maybe chickens did. That's right. Okay we're

101
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:31,840
13 after 11. Our guest this morning Ray Fowler who is associated with NYCAP, chairman of the

102
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:38,000
local subcommittee. A moment ago Ray we were talking about a UFO up in the Exeter, New Hampshire area

103
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:43,760
and you gave quite a description of the people who spotted it including a couple of officers.

104
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:49,600
I understand a little later on in the Amesbury news they ran an article which said the UFO

105
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:56,640
identified in that area was an advertising gimmick and it said that it was a flying billboard which

106
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:02,560
contains about 500 high intensity lights that spell out an advertising message. I know you followed

107
00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:09,440
up this article and found the truth to be. Every time this advertising plane flies it is owned by

108
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:15,760
Skylight Advertising Company in Boston. It causes UFO reports. Hayden Planetarium Smithsonian

109
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,560
Institute and ourselves receive a UFO report practically every time it flies. Of course every

110
00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:25,680
time we make an investigation of any UFO sighting which sounds similar to this advertising plane

111
00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:32,240
we call up the company's manager and get his exact flight plan for that night. The plane,

112
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:38,560
the advertising plane never left the ground at Beverly Airport between August 21st and September

113
00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,520
10th so this would rule out the advertising plane. The company's manager also said he doesn't

114
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:50,480
advertise between 1 and 3 o'clock in the morning over farms. Plus the fact I'm sure he has a motor

115
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,920
in that thing which makes a noise. That's right. And the other of course was silent. Ray what about

116
00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:02,400
yourself personally? Do you feel that Uncle Sam perhaps has a little more information than he's

117
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:08,960
dissing and dishing out to the public? How do you feel about it? Over the years as I've studied

118
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:17,200
UFOs and the Air Force investigation and their attitude plus looking at looking over the various

119
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:23,120
regulations in the United States Air Force regulations you can see that they are carrying on

120
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:29,760
an intensive investigation but to the public their attitude to the public is that well

121
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,680
every year they come up with a statement stating that UFOs are either one or two things. They're

122
00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:44,880
either misinterpretation of national phenomena such as medias, comets, sun dogs or misidentification of

123
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:51,920
common man-made objects, weather balloons and our satellites and aircraft seen under an unusual

124
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:57,440
condition. Ray in your own investigations what percentage do you find our natural phenomenon?

125
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:07,280
I find a good solid 20% are unknowns. Natural phenomena such as medias, sun dogs, we get very

126
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:14,720
few reports concerning these. Most of our reports are echo 1 and 2, the advertising plane,

127
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:20,160
weather balloons or planes in the distance reflecting sunlight in some cases seagulls

128
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:26,240
reflecting sunlight from a distance. Most of our false reports, false unknowns are of man-made

129
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:33,120
objects. Of any of these UFOs that you've investigated has there ever been any evidence

130
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:39,520
of context between intelligent life in these machines with life here on earth?

131
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:46,560
As far as we're concerned no we've investigated every major claim of so-called contacts

132
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:53,920
because there are three major thrusts or views in euphorology. We're going to call it that for

133
00:12:53,920 --> 00:13:01,440
one of a better term. There is a group called a contactee group made up of I would call almost

134
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:08,000
religious cultists who believe yes that UFOs are interplanetary and they have come to save us from

135
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,120
atomic annihilation. They've landed in their backyards, they've invited them into their ships

136
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:18,320
and taken them to Venus and Mars and so forth. Then of course way over on the other end of the

137
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:24,640
spectrum you have the Air Force denying that UFOs exist. Even coming out with statements that

138
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:30,960
the unknowns, the 10.7 unknowns that the Air Force carries in their files could be explained

139
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:36,000
of all information available. Right in the middle of these two views, a mediatory position if you

140
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:43,040
will, is NICAP. And NICAP is convinced and has observational evidence to show that there are

141
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:50,080
intelligently operated objects coming into our atmosphere under control and if you study these

142
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,840
reports over over the years you can see that this is so. There are many reasons that we could readily

143
00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,080
assume that these objects are under intelligent control. Perhaps you would like me to go into

144
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,360
some of these. I'd like to ask you something first. Where do you think they're coming from?

145
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,640
I am the slightest idea. When I was out to Washington State on a business trip for

146
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:15,120
Savannah recently I came in contact with the Washington State subcommittee chairman, a Dr.

147
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:23,440
Palais at Boeing. He is an astronomer there holding a degree in celestial mechanics. He feels that

148
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:31,680
they are either from Mars or using Mars as a base. But most astronomers, most astronomers will

149
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:38,880
will state that life as we know it cannot exist in our solar system. Life as we know it probably

150
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:45,680
exists in our galaxy somewhere but the distances between their star systems and our star systems are

151
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:52,160
so vast, so great, that it is really inconceivable that such a contact could be made a physical

152
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:59,120
contact if you will between our race and their race. I'm still a little bit in the dark if we,

153
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:04,400
of course it doesn't have to be our kind of life ray. That is the, that's right, you hit

154
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:09,520
or hit the nail right on the head. It doesn't have to be our kind of life. However, it's very

155
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:15,840
interesting to note that in those UFO cases and reports and sightings that have involved

156
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:22,880
beings, they are humanoid, three and a half to four feet tall and humanoid. And there are

157
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:30,640
documented cases with policemen, for example, as witnesses watching these beings as strange and

158
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:36,160
as fantastic as it would seem. This would lead me to believe, perhaps we might be wrong about life

159
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:44,080
in our solar system. But then again, even astronomy is an observational science. We haven't been to

160
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,440
Mars. We haven't been to Venus. It's strictly observational. Well, right, didn't we send Mariner

161
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:55,840
four up in the Mars area? Yes, we did. And we only saw a very, very small portion of Mars,

162
00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:02,400
because that portion looked very inhospitable to life. But I have read articles since then by

163
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,760
men who are still convinced that life exists on Mars, that this was just stretching the surface.

164
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,000
This Mariner shot, if you will, with so much more to learn. Well, true. Those photographs,

165
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,080
I guess, were taken six, seven thousand miles above the surface, weren't they? Right. And you

166
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:21,440
got to realize that even our own TIROS weather satellites, satellites which take pictures of

167
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:28,240
our Earth very rarely show any signs of life here. Oh, but by the same token, spectroscopic

168
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:33,200
readings of the planet Mars have shown that there's practically no oxygen up there for a human to

169
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:38,080
exist on anyway. Well, suppose you went back thousands of years ago. This is just a theory.

170
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:43,760
Suppose Mars once did have an atmosphere like ours, once did have oceans, thousands and thousands

171
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:50,720
of years ago. And a race adapted itself to the climate which Mars has now on the terrain and so

172
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:58,000
forth, for a place that is more suitable for colonization, for example. This was a theory

173
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:05,040
advocated by the United States Air Force way back in 1947. A Lieutenant Colonel O'Dell in

174
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:13,120
Project Blue, I guess it was a project sign report at that time, came out with this statement.

175
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:18,880
Of course it's just a theory. We really don't know. Well, I wrote a hypothesis on the canals of

176
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:24,640
Mars one time where a fellow stated just about as you did that perhaps there was an atmosphere

177
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,760
like ours up there at one time and they knew that gradually it was changing so they tapped the polar

178
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:36,160
caps and ran water through these canals and the beings out there conceivably could live in glass

179
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,640
houses. The water would feed plants in the glass houses and of course through the process give

180
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:47,120
oxygen. This was also just a hypothesis. Right. Well, the evidence for canals is very remote.

181
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:52,560
Although we have men such as Dr. Fred Singer who is scientific advisor to President Eisenhower

182
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:58,640
coming out with statements that it could very well be and he's almost convinced that the satellites

183
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:05,120
of Mars, DeMars and Fobos could very well be artificial in nature. Dr. Pillay when I was out

184
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:12,480
at Bowling brought the same theory up. So you see there are scientists on both sides of the coin

185
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:19,120
as it is some saying yes it could be and some saying no impossible. And you know, it's very intelligent

186
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:25,040
holding degrees and technical training would have you. Right. Let's hold off for just a moment here.

187
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,840
I think we have nine or ten commercial words.

188
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,480
Well, our guest this morning is Raymond E. Fowler who of course is chairman of

189
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:54,560
the NYCAP, the Massages of Subcommittee. And Ray, I understand last year sometime,

190
00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:00,640
I think it was in April down in New Mexico there was a sighting not only of UFO but also

191
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,600
of possible life on it. Can you tell me about it? Yes, I'd be glad to. This is one of the

192
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:12,400
best recent unknowns involving humanoids although this has taken place since then in other countries

193
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:19,360
and in the United States. But this sighting took place in Socarro, New Mexico on April 24th, 1964.

194
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:26,240
The time was about 5.40 p.m. The witness was a police officer, a reliable one at that. Police

195
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:32,960
officer Lonnie Zamora was chasing a speeding car on South Park Street down there and he had his

196
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,800
windows down. He heard this loud roaring sound and he looked to the southwest and saw this cone-shaped

197
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:44,000
blue flame in the sky descending. He took one look at this and decided he'd better stop chasing

198
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,520
the car and investigate this because there was a dynamite shack over there and he thought it had

199
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:52,400
blown up. So he radioed back to headquarters that he was going out to investigate this

200
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:58,960
explosion that had taken place. We went up a back road and came to his top of a small hill

201
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:07,200
and he looked over into a gully beside another hill and he saw what he first thought was a car

202
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:13,840
overturned with its two occupants standing beside it looking at it. He took another look however and

203
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:21,440
the two occupants seemed too small. He said they looked like small, very small men or two boys.

204
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:27,120
He was about 800 feet away at this time. Took another look and this look revealed that this was not

205
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:32,320
an automobile but an egg-shaped object on stilts or legs and the two figures seemed to be working on

206
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:39,040
the object. One turned and looked up at the the cruiser and Zamora realized that this wasn't his

207
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,720
imagination and radioed back to headquarters again to send help that he was going to investigate this.

208
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:50,480
So he drove down the hill into a gully toward the hill where the gully was and he lost sight of

209
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,520
this object for a few minutes. But when he got up on top of the second hill and looked down there

210
00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:02,160
just about 150 feet away from him was his object. White metallic egg-shaped about the size of an

211
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:09,600
automobile and about four to five feet in width. He radioed again and he was getting out of the car

212
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:15,680
and he started toward the object. The figures or whatever they were were gone. He got to be about

213
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,080
a hundred feet away from the object and all of a sudden an ear-splitting roar came from the object

214
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:26,400
and blue flame came from underneath it and he thought the whole thing was going to blow up in

215
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,280
his face. So he ran over to the other side of the hill and and got that crouched down and watched it.

216
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:38,320
He watched it take off. It got up to about 20 feet off the floor of the gully and then the blue

217
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:44,800
flame shrank to nothing and a high-pitched whining sound came from the object which rapidly

218
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,440
lowered to a low-pitched sound and then he said it was so quiet you could hear pin drop and then

219
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:56,800
it moved off out of line of sight. A few seconds the state police arrived and Sergeant Cheve of the

220
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:02,160
New Mexico State Police and both of them went down to the spot where the object had been and there

221
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,360
were four heavy indentations made by the legs of the object and the ground and the vegetation were

222
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:12,240
still smoldering. For the rest of that week and into the next week many other reports of this

223
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:18,240
object were received. I got many newspapers from that area and the whole area was terrorized by this

224
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:25,120
thing whatever it was. Did you have a committee down there raised? Yes we did. In fact our committee

225
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:30,320
chairman down there made an investigation right alongside the Air Force because this was so public

226
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,760
that people are all around the place. They had a cord in the area off. Dr. Heineck, J. Allen Heineck

227
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,600
is out at Northwestern Observatory directed director of Dieben Observatory out there made

228
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:46,560
the investigation for the Air Force and afterwards he said quote I found nothing that

229
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:52,400
tends to discredit Zamora. I am more puzzled now than I was when I arrived here. Sergeant Cheve said

230
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,200
of the witness Lani Zamora, Lani is not a man to be easily frightened that thing must have made an

231
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:04,320
impression on him to scare him like it did. Dr. Lincoln LaPaz one of our country's leading experts

232
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:11,360
in meteorite research is a personal friend of Zamoras and he came to Zamora's rescue I guess

233
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,160
he thought that Zamora was going to receive a lot of ridicule and said that Zamora was an excellent

234
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:23,200
observer that he had worked with Zamora for 16 years. So it was a very reliable witness and there

235
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:29,040
was a very reliable witness involved and here we had an object an age-shaped object with humanoids.

236
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,320
Ray we'll be back this is so interesting and I'm sure our audience feels the same way we have to

237
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,600
make a break now for news and a commercial word prior to that and if there's anyone out in our

238
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,880
audience who has anything that would be of interest to you I'm sure they'll give us a call during the

239
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,080
five minutes of news but then we're going to bring Ray back into the studio.

240
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,360
Hello again this is Alan Derry saying we've gone through our five minutes of news together

241
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:12,080
and now we're back in the other studio with Raymond Fowler who we've been discussing UFOs with this

242
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:18,400
morning different sightings and how he kind of feels about the possibility of life elsewhere in

243
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,920
our solar system and whether these visitations if they are actually visitations are coming from

244
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:31,920
another planet. Ray I was talking to a lad out cafeteria who belongs to a UFO group somewhere

245
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,840
in this area I don't know the name of the group but he said at the last meeting all members who

246
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:45,120
had taken any photographs of you know unidentified unidentified flying objects bring them in and

247
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:51,040
they did and he said they were remarkably clear and good and he's a photographer himself here at the

248
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:57,920
station he said they were not retouched in any way whatsoever that most of the shots they had were of

249
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:05,760
disc shaped objects which apparently comes from the mothership if there is such a thing as a mothership

250
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:12,240
which is usually cigar shaped. Have you seen any photographs? Yes we have a lecture UFO fact

251
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:19,200
or fiction or UFO facts about unidentified flying objects we're calling it now and in this lecture

252
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:27,360
we have authentic UFO photographs one set released by the president of brazil a photograph of a

253
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:33,040
satin type configuration UFO was taken from the deck of the igy ship el marante saldano

254
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:42,400
back in the 50s and four excellent photographs were taken by el mero marona a photographer who had his

255
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,760
camera set up on deck to take training exercises at the time this is just one of many authentic

256
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:54,720
UFO photos that we do have. Edward J. Rupel former head of project bluebook for the Air Force came out

257
00:25:54,720 --> 00:26:02,240
with a book back in the late 50s and wrote an expose of the Air Force investigation without

258
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,520
breaking security and he mentioned that the Air Force has many fine pictures of UFOs which have

259
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:14,560
not yet been released. For then why does the government decisively say that there's nothing

260
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:20,800
to them they can all be explained? We have mentioned the one possibility in fact not possibility but

261
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,000
true fact that the public right now and not only in the united states but throughout the world this

262
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:32,800
revelation we are not ready for number one. Number two no government would want to admit officially

263
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,800
to the public that there are objects under intelligent control coming from we know no we

264
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,480
don't know where they're coming from we don't know what they're here for and there's nothing that we

265
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,840
can do about them and that is another reason another reason i'm sure is that they're trying to find out

266
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,360
what makes these things tick you imagine what it would do to aircraft industry if we could find out

267
00:26:53,360 --> 00:27:03,200
the method of propulsion. One of the site site is of a UFO in this area is chief scientist at a leading

268
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,960
electronics company in this area and his main reason following UFOs and being a member of NICAP is to

269
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:15,280
research on the possible propulsion system of these UFOs and i'm sure the Air Force our government

270
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,400
are doing a lot of research in this area. Are there any theories raised to how they are propelled?

271
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:27,040
And not having a technical mind i can't go into that in length but i might point out that in many

272
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:34,000
cases many many cases not only in this country but throughout the world UFOs hovering near automobiles

273
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:42,480
have caused complete ignition failure radio failure and headlight failure just this year in january

274
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:48,000
and mr charles knee i think he's president of the national hot association for that section of

275
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:54,160
new hampshire was driving up near infield about 60 miles an hour along this road and all of a sudden

276
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,040
everything went dead his radio his ignition uh his lights he pulled over the side of the road and

277
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,360
got out he heard this high-pitched whine and he looked up and he said this object was up there

278
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,440
was so bright it was just like taking a flashlight at arms length and letting you have it right in

279
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:13,520
the eyes he just watched it and hovered there for maybe 20 or 30 seconds and then it moved off

280
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,160
and when it did he was able to start his automobile or lights flickered on and the radio came back on

281
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,680
but this is just one of hundreds of reports not only from this country but other countries of the

282
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:30,960
same the same right this doesn't happen in all cases and it's sort of paradoxal one might even

283
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,160
theorize that it's directed pretty young candy listen we're gonna pause for a minute here ray

284
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,800
we have a word from the xero people and then we'll be back with more chatter i don't know we left

285
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:46,560
off with uh i guess you telling us a little bit about these the pictures that had been taken from

286
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,840
a boat in south america wasn't that's right you know off trindade island in brazil you know if we

287
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:57,600
had any people out in our audience who were interested in this ufo i have to call it a problem

288
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,160
because there aren't any real answers to it yet apparently uh are there clubs locally that they

289
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:08,400
can get into yes there are clubs locally that they can get into that's a new england ufo study group

290
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:14,480
in quincy they might write i haven't his address right offhand but mr steve potnam

291
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:23,840
in situate i believe it is uh better still our local subcommittee has available for those of

292
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,160
you who are interested out there in the radio audience free literature concerning the national

293
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:33,920
investigations committee on the aerial phenomena and our local work here if any of you are interested

294
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:41,760
in uh receiving this information just write to ray fouler when i'm massachusetts that will be sufficient

295
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,720
and if you have any reports that you know of or people who have seen ufo's please send me the

296
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,040
names and addresses and the approximate date of the sighting and we will look into these you know

297
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:57,760
ray we might explain to people that um there is a kooky side to this ufo business and then there's

298
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,840
the legitimate side for example there are people who write books i have one in front of me right now

299
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:09,760
called the secret of the saucers is put up by the amherst press which i think is out in wisconsin

300
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:17,760
if i'm not mistaken by a fellow who has a uh ufo magazine that he sends out periodically which i guess

301
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,600
has some legitimate listings of sightings that have occurred but generally he makes this a fictional

302
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,800
thing all the way through and i think it spoils the whole picture for people who are sincerely

303
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:34,000
interested in finding out what ufo's are like for example in one of these books he tells about

304
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:39,760
taking a trip to venus if i'm not mistaken into mars which is you know just so much high wash

305
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:46,160
how does your group feel about people like this we've investigated all major contact declaims as

306
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,120
we call them and i found that every single one of them without exception has been fraudulent

307
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:58,320
unfortunately uh as pt bonham once said it's a sucker born every every minute there are people

308
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:04,000
looking for a way to make easy money there are other people who are looking for public attention

309
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:09,440
attention drawn to themselves in the name the paper and so forth and this type of person

310
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:16,560
comes out with books like this i know one the late georgia dempsky came out with several ufo

311
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:23,840
books he started out as a janitor at malpalamar uh gardens at the foot of malpalamar and he must

312
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,840
have been a slumshark looking through the telescope and there's a lot of many things but his books

313
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:33,440
netted him hundreds of thousands of dollars and quite a reputation worldwide tours and uh visits

314
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:39,920
with royalty and so forth janitor right up to the top and he took trips to venus and the moon and so

315
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:46,640
sure he did unfortunately this causes more problem this causes more problems than the

316
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,360
official governmental secrecy as far as i'm concerned right i thought a very fine article

317
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:58,560
was recently done in true magazine october issue i believe did you happen to read it yes uh it was

318
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:06,320
written by jaquel valet a french astronomer mathematician who is also a consultant to nasa

319
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,920
by the way was come out with a book called anatomy of a phenomenon it's published by the

320
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:17,520
henry regnery company in new york only costs 495 and it's one of the best books i feel

321
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:23,440
ever written on the subject because here we have a professional astronomer who has access to files

322
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,480
including the air force unclassified section by the way this is a major breakthrough the air force

323
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,440
actually let this man come in and look at the unclassified section of their ufo files and files

324
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:39,600
in europe here we have this man with this reputation uh coming out with a pro ufo book

325
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:46,560
believing himself that the interplanetary answer is probably the correct answer is the first book

326
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,240
by a professional astronomer advocating ufo's as being interplanetary vehicles an array with people

327
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:59,360
like this who obviously are intellectuals going along with it as you say in a pro category why

328
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,760
hasn't there been for example a congressional hearing to get into this thing a little further

329
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:13,200
one of the major reasons that nycab was formed in 1956 was to promote open congressional hearings

330
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:20,400
on ufo's at that time the former head of central intelligence agency uh vice adnil roscoe a chill

331
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,440
and keta came out with a statement to the press that the unknown objects are operating under

332
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,960
intelligent control it is imperative that we learn where they come from he became the first

333
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:38,720
head of nycab's board of governors at that time nycab has tried over the years to obtain open

334
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:44,480
congressional hearings but even the lawmakers involved congressmen involved who want open

335
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:51,280
congressional hearings have failed time in and time out because of uh government clampdown for

336
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:57,840
example senator stewart simington in a public statement for nycab states as this the public

337
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,560
has sound reason for being confused about this the public should be given all information which

338
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:08,880
would not adversely affect our national security uh senator thomas j doge says of his own committee

339
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:14,800
the senate committee ufo's have never been accurately explained we that is the senate committee don't

340
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,520
have all the facts and certainly the senate committee should have all the facts for the

341
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,680
reasons that we've outlined before and perhaps many other reasons our government and the governments

342
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,640
throughout the world are reluctant to give any attention public wise to the ufo problem at this

343
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:36,240
time and we feel it is high time that the american public should be told the truth about ufo's at

344
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:43,120
least a public information program sponsored by the government preparing the public bit by bit for

345
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:49,680
what ufo's might be and and what effect they could have on our society as we know it instead

346
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:58,320
the exact opposite seems to have taken place back in january 12th 1953 according to edward j

347
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:05,520
rupell former united states air force ufo project chief he stated that on january 12th 1953 the

348
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,760
air force invited a group of top scientists to look at their best ufo sightings they gave this

349
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:17,680
group of top scientists three alternatives one that ufo's were into planetary two that ufo's

350
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:23,760
were not real and that the ufo project should close three that the ufo project needed more data

351
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,920
before they would give a conclusion after examining this evidence they came to the third

352
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,520
conclusion they felt that the ufo project needed more data and that to get this data that the ufo

353
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,360
project should be quadrupled in size and that the public should be given all information concerning

354
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:49,280
ufo's instead in 1953 the air force project went completely underground in a complete system

355
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,280
set up to keep significant facts about ufo's from the public i have a copy of their regulation

356
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,960
right here i could need you sections from this indicating that this is so already you know when

357
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:08,320
you start talking about ufo's with the ordinary person uh for example myself i kind of feel that

358
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:13,280
they do exist i i personally think we have intelligent life from somewhere else coming

359
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,400
down here occasionally why don't they make themselves known as a question that's always asked

360
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,920
why don't they show themselves uh are they here to cause harm are they here to observe

361
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:31,040
what's their reason for coming again all we can do is speculate alan well let's just speculate a little

362
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:38,240
my own theory is that there are very few of them meaning whatever they are the most of these things

363
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:45,440
are machines and since 1946 1947 there were few sightings during the war years that they have

364
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:51,200
been making an intensive survey of our planet lately they seem to have taken an interest in

365
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,880
people because cars have been chased people have been chased along highways like the exit

366
00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,160
deciding so forth but there are very few of them and that they are vulnerable for example if one

367
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,560
of these things was standing out in the field i'm sure that perhaps with a 30 30 rifle i might be

368
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:11,840
able to knock them down and in many cases where humanoids have been seen the reaction of the

369
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:18,640
the witnesses has been to strike back or run unfortunately another reason is if these things

370
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,920
were hostile unless hope they aren't they don't want us to know anything about them a little as

371
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:29,440
possible because of security reasons one can speculate and speculate and and and still not

372
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,640
be really sure why they're here and what they want but the fact remains that there is good

373
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:40,880
observational evidence from people all over the world including witnesses were very good scientific

374
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:47,040
backgrounds that there are objects coming into our atmosphere under intelligent control well some

375
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:52,320
years ago wasn't there a couple of airline pilots who one of them in particular claimed that an

376
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:58,880
unidentified flying object flew beside his plane for some distance and he described it like most

377
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,440
ufo's are described and then he finally went to the point of saying this is the captain we'd like

378
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:09,120
to have you look out at the port side and all the passengers looked out and they saw this object too

379
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:14,320
and finally it took off in a big burst of speed and left and he was left in the wake of the turbulence

380
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:19,680
that had that had left did you hear the that report right yes there are many reports many reports

381
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:26,080
concerning ufo sightings by airline pilots so much so that in 1954 the united states air force

382
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:32,800
met with heads of major airline companies and set up a regular ufo reporting network between

383
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,720
the major airline companies and project blue book unfortunately the because of the air force

384
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:46,560
secrecy and ridicule and and order jennet 146 which forbids civilian airline pilots to discuss ufo

385
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,440
sightings having once reported them through official procedure airline pilots have the

386
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,520
attitude that they don't want to report them to the air force we get many sightings coming into

387
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:01,040
nightcap that have not been reported to the air force by airline pilots one of the men on our

388
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:08,400
board of governors is senior captain william b nash a pilot for over 16 years on pan american airways

389
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,800
and he stated after getting a very close look at ufo's i am certain that the ufo's we saw were

390
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,840
intelligently operated craft from somewhere other than this planet that's quite a statement to make

391
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,960
and yet what he saw convinced him immediately that there was nothing that that we could have made that

392
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:31,760
performed like the ufo's he saw ray we've got a pause here for just a moment ray and i are back

393
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:37,680
here now we're just talking about a radar sighting that occurred that i think you all might be

394
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:43,920
interested in i was about to ask anyway a little while ago what with all our equipment these days

395
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:49,280
electronically they ever follow these things for any distance on radar and what conclusions did

396
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,400
those sightings come to radar visual sightings are among the best because you see an object

397
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,120
and is tracked by several radar showing the object to be in the exact position as you see it and there

398
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:07,120
are many radar visual sightings made each year one of the best and which was mentioned by the

399
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,520
former head of project blue book repel in his book took place at alzareth air force base south

400
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:19,200
decoder on august 12 1953 ground observer corps spotted an extremely bright light low on the horizon

401
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,920
about 10 miles west of alzareth air force base and they reported it to the air defense

402
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:30,560
command radar station at alzareth so they they turned their radar to that section that sector

403
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,680
and picked up a target exactly where the ground observer post said it was the warrant officer

404
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:41,840
said that it was real well-defined solid and bright it was not a weather target it was a real solid

405
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:48,080
target they called in height finding radar and it also confirmed the target it was at 16 000 feet

406
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,760
just hovering there then the ground observer corps reported that the target started to move southwest

407
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,360
both radars confirmed the movements the target moved over rapid city made a wide sweep around it and

408
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,720
returned to its original position the light was seen by both radars now visually by the ground

409
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:10,560
observer corps and also by men who saw it visually outside the air defense command radar post so they

410
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:16,800
sent up an ff84 jet they vetted it into the target and he saw it visually and closed within three

411
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:22,960
miles the target but as soon as he closed within three miles the target the object began to move

412
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:28,560
pilot start move the radar recorded its movement ground observer corps start moved and the f84

413
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,640
chased it but every time he got within three miles of it it would just pick up a little speed and pull

414
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:39,440
away while the jet followed it for 120 miles and then had to turn back because of fuel the ufo

415
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:45,520
turned and followed the jet back to the base about 10 miles behind it this was confirmed visually

416
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:51,440
and by radar so they scrambled another f84 the pilot saw right away and attempted to close in

417
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:58,000
radar tracked both the jet and the ufo again the ufo would not let that jet get closer than three

418
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:03,680
miles then the pilot flipped on his radar ranging gun sight in a few seconds the red light on his

419
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,640
sight blinked on and he realized that something real and solid was in front of him not just a light

420
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,600
at this point he was scared and he received permission to break off the intercept it was

421
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,960
granted and he returned to the base the ufo did not return but the ground observer corps

422
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,840
sporting sporting posts from the direction it was going reported all the way edward j.

423
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:29,920
vupel head of the project blue book said this when he interviewed the pilot personally quote

424
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:36,000
when i talked to him he readily admitted that he'd been scared he'd met md 109s fw 190s and me

425
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:42,000
262s over germany and he'd met make 15s over career but that large bluish white light had

426
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,720
scared him the sighting was thoroughly investigated we looked into every facet of the incident

427
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:52,960
nothing but a big question mark asking what it was remained this is an unknown and there are many

428
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,760
many many more like this alan from all over the world objects seen in the daytime and confirmed

429
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:04,080
by radar and visually all right i hope the day comes in our lifetime when they make themselves

430
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:12,480
known or whatever to the human race and we get together what do you think i'm hoping the day

431
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:18,320
will come i am very sympathetic with the air force policy our government's policy in one way but

432
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:23,520
dr. karl young one of the world's was one of the world's leading psychiatrist and a member of night

433
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:29,840
cap wrote to night cap and said that after looking into the best thing to do is to tell a public

434
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,800
what the ufo's are as much as we know about them and prepare the public that fear the unknown is

435
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:41,040
greater than fear of the known let's hope that our government does this soon well it's been a very

436
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,920
interesting hour right i still have about 40 000 questions i'd like to fire away but our time is

437
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,520
kind of up and i know there's going to be a few people giving you a buzz on the phone anything

438
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:55,280
you'd like to say in parting thank you very much alan for having us here with you this morning having

439
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,160
me representing nightcap here i would like to present you with a copy of the ufo evidence

440
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:07,360
a document which was prepared specifically for congress in 1964 by nightcap covering ufo sightings

441
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:13,680
between 1946 and 1964 i'd like you to have this and i hope it'll spur you on into further

442
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,080
investigation of the subject thank you very much i'll put this to work right after i get off the

443
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:23,040
here this afternoon that's for sure once again rave many thanks and thank you we hope you stay

444
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:29,600
tuned now for the news which is coming up very shortly and uh ray may be nice enough to spend

445
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:36,080
10 or 15 minutes at the phone before he scoops home to his family uh word avenue 8 5000 and 30

446
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,280
seconds from now you'll be hearing that news here on w hdh